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The Ving Tsun Knives

by Dave Jardine

Baat Jaam Do, the Ving Tsun knives are excellent weapons and we use a traditional chopper design, wide blade, and same width all the way along. We have a good sized guard that allows us to change our grip on the knife by rotating the handle in our hand, thus turning the blade to be flat without compromising the strength in the wrist.

The quillon, the curved part coming out where the handle meets the blade is large and rounded, just the perfect size to catch a pole or staff and allow us to move in on the opponent while controlling their weapon. It can also catch an opponent’s edged blade and with a simple turn of our wrist trap their weapon and allow us to chop their wrist with our other knife. The same as with the arm break move in the Chum Kiu form, where we don’t train to go for an arm break but just do it if their arm happens to get in the right place, with regard to trapping an opponent’s weapon in the quillon it’s not something we aim to do, but it’s a possibility we like to be open to.. if their weapon happens to catch in the quillon we’ll turn their blade and chop their wrist off. With a large quillon, the opponent’s blade can be caught without our blade being turned much at all, so it’s much more likely to happen than with a small quillon. The larger quillon also works very well as an eye gouge if our blade were to slide next to the opponent’s head, even piercing the back of the eye socket. Also, the larger quillon serves well as a guard, while a smaller quillon will more easily allow an opponent’s blade to strike over ours and into our arm. Sometimes, bigger is better..
We get our training knives made by a local blacksmith, Wayne Saunders who operates Iron Lord Forge. You can see an image of the knives in his gallery here.  Click on the image in the gallery to get a clearer view. Contact Wayne via his website for further details or to order a set. He is a master knife maker and artisan.. his other work is well worth a browse!
The knife training is an important component of VT training, especially regarding specialised footwork and development of the understanding of the elbows, and to develop strength in the waist and the wrist snap for the punch.
One perspective on the knife training is that the knives are simply a piece of training equipment to develop aspects of the empty hand work. Of course weapons skill is also developed, but in reality when most fights occur there is not a weapon handy, unless it’s in the opponent’s hands!
The knife training skills can transfer easily and naturally to a broken pool cue, a couple of cricket stumps or even a rolled up magazine if we are lucky enough to have something such on hand at the time.

The real value is in what the knife training contributes to the rest of the system.

Because we are holding weapons, and programming in some of the moves to deal with an opponent’s heavy weapon, our use of the waist and feet is very different in these instances from the footwork elsewhere in the system. Yet, this footwork can be used to manipulate a much heavier opponent than our usual footwork would allow. It can also be used to deliver devastating strikes which approach the opponent from surprising positions and in situations where our usual movement or structures won’t work.
When we are training with our knives to fight an opponent with a long sword, our footwork is different again to effectively get us off the line of attack and to withdraw our leg to hide the femoral artery. This kind of stepping is valuable in getting off the line of an incoming punch or kick and moving in through the centre, and it delivers an extremely powerful and devastating punch.
Because we are moving a weight, the knives, held in the hands sometimes at almost arms length, the angular inertia from the weight forces us to develop strength in our shifting, in the waist, also in the ankles, knees, lower back, shoulders, wrists, elbows, and how to unify and/or coordinate these strengths. We train with 1.6mm steel blades which are quick and light but still give a solid chop. We also train with 3mm blades for extra strength training, and with steel pipes for power training.

The knife training develops a different mindset to the empty hand work, an extra viciousness, due to what we are visualising doing to the opponent with our chopping actions. This can obviously help if we get into a fight, but doesn’t make for a healthy attitude when relating to people in day to day life, which is one reason we are advised to not overtrain the knives. A little bit of a good thing is best, in this case.

Facing training partners attacking us with weapons conditions us so we can better relax when facing unarmed opponents. This is a positive outcome of the knife training mindset.

There is a more serious caution that comes with the knives. There is another reason that we should never overtrain them. In much of the knife training, our wrist is used much like the elbow is used in the empty hand training, especially with jum sau like actions, where our wrist effectively becomes the elbow for the action. When we overtrain the knives, our wrist can begin to act like an elbow in the empty hand training, so our chi sau and fighting gets ‘handsy’ and we work incorrectly using the wrist instead of the elbow. I’ve been advised this error once trained in is almost impossible to fix. So, no matter how senior one gets in Ving Tsun, the empty hand work always makes by far the bulk of the training. The weapons are there to complement the empty hand training.

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Wing Chun’s Butterfly Knives

by Phillip Redmond

The butterfly knives are a weapon used primarily by martial artists of southern China. The blade length of the weapon is equal to the fist and the forearm, and a guard is fixed to its hilt to protect the hand. The special length of the blade is designed to allow for better maneuvering. For instance, if the blade is longer than the length of the fist and the arm, it could not be able to be rotated inside the arms. However, the shape of the butterfly knife and the way of its use differs in northern China.

With the northern Chinese butterfly knife, the footwork of the user in kicking is stressed; but the butterfly swords in southern China are used chiefly in close-quarter fighting because of their short length, with emphasis placed on precision and the coordination of both swords at the same time. One modern adept of hung gar style, Wong Fei Hung, was especially noted for his skill with this weapon.


Wing Chun eight slash butterfly knives are also called Wing Chun Baat Jaam Do. The name Baat Jaam Do was derived from the initial intention of the originator who designed the striking technique mainly aiming for the wrist, elbow, knee and ankle. The purpose was to main the opponent rather than to kill since the Wing Chun Baat Jaam Do was originated from the Shaolin temple and used by the monks and nuns of the temple in their travels.

They frequently carried sums of money donated by their worshipers. Often they would be met by bandits who intended to rob them. The monks were prepared for this, and they were equipped with butterfly swords hidden in the side of their boots. When they were confronted by the bandits, they would pull out the knives to defend themselves. Since their religion did not allow them to slaughter anyone, their initial target was to maim their opponents on the wrists, knees and ankles. In the Ching Dynasty (A.D. 1644-1911), China was ruled by the Manchu invaders. It was a time when 90 percent of the Chinese, the Hans, were ruled by the ten percent minority, the Manchus.

When all weapons were outlawed by the Manchu Government, the Manchus gained full control of China. They enforced many unjust laws on the Hans. For instance, all the female Han infants were made to bind their feet so that when they grew up they would be restricted in their movement and they would have to be dependent upon their parents or their husband. They restricted the work opportunity of the Han. The Hans were unable to hold office in the government higher than a certain level. They placed heavy tax burdens on the country so that they could have complete economic control of the Han people. Kung Fu training was also banned for the Hon people.

However, the Manchu Government adopted the Hon culture. They respected the Shaolin Temple as a Buddhist sanctuary. The Hons began training a revolutionary army in the art of Kung Fu, using the Shaolin temple as the secret training place. In the traditional Shaolin system it would take 15 to 20 years to train a Kung fu master. The need to develop a new and more effective style of Kung Fu became critical when some of the existing Kung F masters surrendered to work for the Manchu Government.

Five of the Shaolin grandmasters planned to develop a new form, one which would have a shorter training time and would be more effective than all the other systems developed before. The five teachers met to discuss the merits of each of their particular systems of Kung Fu and chose the most efficient training method from each system. They developed the principle and the training program of Wing Chun that would take only five years to master. They called this system Wing Chun, its name meaning “hope for the future.” However, before this new system could be put into practice, the Shaolin temple was raided and burned by the Manchus. Ng Mui, a nun, was the only survivor of the original group of five. She passed her knowledge onto a young orphan girl whom she named Wing Chun.

Along with the development of the Wing Chun system, the butterfly sword (Baat Jaam Do), was chosen as the only weapon in the Wing Chun system because the length of the Baat Jaam Do made it easy to conceal. It could be used as a extension of the arms, and they were the most deadly and effective weapons of all. This was because the Baat Jaam Do system emphasized the training of coordinating the two knives, the training of the eyes, wrist and footwork. The principle was based on the fact that every defense was accompanied by a counter attack, and every attack was accompanied by a trapping, parrying or immobilizing move of the other sword. Plus, it was designed to use the ingenuity of the Wing Chun footwork to its fullest extent, making it the champion of all weapons.

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Eight cutting blades or Bart Cham Dao

Eight cutting blades or Bat Cham Dao

The Wing Chun Butterfly Knife Form

The Bat Cham Dao sometimes called Bat Jam Dao literally means eight cutting knives. Bat is the number 8, Cham is to cut or slash and Dao refers to a single edged blade like a knife or sword. This is usually the final form taught to a Wing Chun Student. Yip Man only taught a handful (probably seven) of students this form in his entire life. Yip Man is said to have learned the form off of Leung Bik.

History of the form

Shaolin monk theory

There are a number of theories about the origin of the form. The most common theory, but in my opinion least likely theory, is that the form originated with the Shaolin monks. The fable goes, that the monks would keep the knives in their boots and use them to defend themselves. They were allegedly used so monks could incapacitate not kill their attackers and therefore still uphold their moral integrity. Whilst this is plausible, there are two key problems. One, there is no evidence that any of the Shaolin sets use Wing Chun style Dao in the same way as Wing Chun students do during the Bat Cham Dao form, namely rotating the blade so the spine of the blade runs parallel to the forearm. In fact some people have suggested that, compressive research covering all the weapons used by the Shaolin styles, does not show any use of the Wing Chun style Dao. Secondly, a pair of large knives would not be a good choice for non lethal combat. A walking stick or plain metal baton would be cheaper and likely safer, non-lethal, self defense option.

Developed from Crane and other Kung Fu styles

An alternative theory is that the form was developed as an adaptation of other styles of Kung Fu that existed in southern China at the time, possibly Fujan White Crane. Fujan White Crane does use two Dao and rotates the blades during the form. However their form does not resemble the more modern Bat Cham Dao Form as done by students of Yip Man. Therefore, to me, it seems likely that the Wing Chun form was inspired by other Chinese martial arts that existed at the time, but it had the Wing Chun principles of economy of motion, non-commitment and directness applied. This theory is supported by the fact a number of other southern Chines martial arts like Choi Lee Fut and Hung Gar etc, also use a pair of dao. Although again, they use them differently. In addition there is a fair amount of evidence  to suggest Wing Chun’s hand forms are themselves and adaptation of Fujan Crane Style and Snake Style Kung Fu.

Everyday knives used for Wing Chun

Another possible theory is that the form is a way of using Wing Chun to fight with domestic knives, for instance Chinese cooking cleavers (which are sometimes used in pairs when cooking). Some people argue, the form can be seen as an extension of the hand techniques, just using a weapon. Whilst this is again a possibility, I feel this is an unlikely theory due to the nature of the form. In the final section of the Bat Cham Dao, the student is required to reverse the grip so the spine of the blade is parallel to the forearm. This is something that can only be done swiftly mid flow, by using the hooks on the back of the Dao, something which would not be present on a domestic knife of any sort. This last point leads nicely onto the evolution of the weapons themselves.

History of the weapon

Quite a bit of good research has been done into the history of the weapon. As you have hopefully noticed, I have simply been referring to the weapon as Dao (meaning single edged blade in Cantonese), however it goes by a multitude of other names. I shall explore this terminology before looking at the history of the weapon itself.

Naming: Butterfly Knives, Hudiedao, Hu Die Dao or Wu Dip Dao?

Calling Wing Chun dao, Butterfly Knives is often very confusing for people outside of Wing Chun as the term is commonly used to describe the Filipino flick knife or balisong. The knives used in Wing Chun are nothing like the Filipino knives with the blade concealed in the handle. However the term butterfly knives is very common within the Wing Chun community. It was likely coined as a reference to the way people tend to mount the knives when putting them on display. i.e. crossed and resembling the shape of a butterfly with their wings open. People also refer to Wing Chun Dao as butterfly swords, which is more helpful, but still says very little about the sword.

The Chinese term for this is Wu Dip Dao. This is simply the Chinese term for Butterfly Knives/Swords. The word Dao or sometimes just spelled Do, can describe a tool which in English we have separate names for. For instance, we have the word knife, machete and sword. In Cantonese these can all be called Dao. However you would say Jian if the sword has an edge both sides but Dao if it only has one cutting edge. In English we can call these two separate thing by one name, sword. This linguistic issue is one reason for different names.

Some people call Wing Chun Dao, broadswords. Historically they seem to have been referred to as double swords.

… a curious double sword, capable of being used as one, and having but one sheath.

As described above in 1839, some of the first accounts of them are documented in the west simply as double swords. For the purpose of this article I will call them Dao or Wing Chun Dao

Evolution of the Weapon

 

The above picture is a rough visualization of how the weapon evolved over time.

Like no 2) A set of mid. 19th century swords.

Like no 3) A pair of Yip Man style swords.

In order to look at when this type of weapon seems to have arrived in history, we must first define what makes this weapon unique and therefore should be counted as separate to its predecessor. In this instance there are two very unique features to Wing Chun style Dao. Firstly, the hook on the back of the blade that allows the student to reverse the grip quickly. Secondly, the D shaped hand guard on the front is reasonably unique in that most Chinese weapons don’t have that kind of guard. Given that we consider these two features to be what separates Wing Chun style Dao from regular knives and swords, we should next look at early references to these weapons and how they latter evolved.

It looks like the first appearance of these weapons was in the early to mind 19th Century (1800’s). However the weapons from that time as seen in drawings, photos and historical collections show a blade that is far too long, far too thin and therefore too optimized for stabbing to be the kind of weapon used in Wing Chun’s Bat Cham Dao. The stabbing aspect in the form is only found at the start of the second section, This means it makes up about 6-10% of the form. However there are numerous slashes in the form that cut through 8 angles (hence the name of the form). Therefore as the from encourages slashing, it seems reasonable that the early Dao were not created for Wing Chun rather, Wing Chun adapted the weapons that already existed. This idea supports the theory that the form is likely the evolution of an existing style in southern China at the time.

Evidence, suggests the the shorter blades, that are more optimized for slashing evolved at the very end of the 19th Century or start of the 20th Century. This suggested that the Bat Cham Dao forms appearance in Wing Chun is reasonably recent, perhaps only 50-120 years ago.

The forms structure

The form has 8 sections. Many people mistakenly believe this is where the forms name comes from. However the eight actually refers to the number of different angles the blade cuts through whilst performing the techniques in the form. Hence the name “eight cutting blade”.

Obviously the form teaches the Wing Chun student how to use a pair of Wing Chun Dao (knives/swords). Butterfly knives are often confused with Bulls Ears swords. They look very similar however the difference in the handle of the weapon will dramatically reduce the functionality of a Bulls Ear sword compared to a pair Butterfly Knives.

Initially a student may ask “Although it may be fun to learn, and nice from traditional perspective, why should I learn the Bart Cham Dao in this day and age? I am never going to use it in the practical sense.” So what else does learning the Bat Cham Dao help with?

Perhaps most importantly it reinforces the underlying Wing Chun principles seen in the other hand forms, for instance economy of motion, deflection etc. It will also teach the practitioner a new type of stepping that can be used in certain situations. Furthermore as an added bonus learning the Bart Cham Dao will drastically improve wrist strength if trained properly and regularly.

Furthermore because the knives used in the form are not as big as traditional Chinese swords the techniques translate well into improvised weapons you may find in a modern lifestyle.

Before the Bat Cham Dao can be learned it is very important to have a solid grasp of all the other hand forms first. This is because, amongst other things, the stepping in the Bat Cham Dao is not effective without the stepping from the second and third hand forms (Chum Kiu and Biu Gee). The system is designed to grow from the Siu Nim Tao  to Bat Cham Dao and it is not wise to try and miss sections or rush through.